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     Teddy_jacobson Message Board Member Username: Teddy_jacobson Post Number: 125 Registered: 02-2003 |
Being that many people call me about Keltec pistols, I have made some inquiries about its design. I have never owned one and I have never taken one in to work on. I am talking about their P-32, which has a polymer frame. I asked some one that knows and he told me it fires from a locked breech, and the breech face was cut with a broach and I also learned that it has all chrome silicon springs. Part number 280 is an ejector that is incorporated on the pistol. Its shelf life is double that of the Beretta Tomcat. Meaning it will fire about double the amount of rounds for the life of the pistol. Just thought I would pass this on to you. I have no experience with a Keltec P-32 and have never fired one. They wholesale for about $200.00 and are very hard to find anywhere. Teddy www.actionsbyt.com | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Bighanded Message Board Member Username: Bighanded Post Number: 545 Registered: 07-2005 |
the P32 and the 380 were selling or being "pushed" like hotcakes about 2 years back here in my local area...and yeah, now you don't see them on the shelves nearly as much and I'm not sure why. I've held a 32..felt like a squirt gun it was so light..at the time, my LEO bud was urging me with all the love he has for me..not to even consider one...and at the same time I was hearing that many LEO were carrying them as a BUG. another friend across the street owns the P380 and I did have a chance to fire it...compared to both the mustang and the colt govt in 380, the gun was no where near as comfy to shoot. I won't kick it on reliability, whch it wasn't, but then I've had a mustang that was a jammomatic too. but to "act" as a breach lock, maybe its cause of the lack of weight, but the gun felt nothing like the 1911A style colt which is the only other gun in that size that I know of that's a BL. I'm glad to hear there's some quality parts inside...I couldn't bring my brain to trust something that felt that light, actually handling the bang of a bullet going off...maybe I'm just overestimating the bang of a 32...I just prefer a little more metal..but thanks for the update...learn something everyday.... | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Gpr Message Board Member Username: Gpr Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2006 |
i am on the other side of the keltec fence....32..380..9..40..357..subbie....only two i had to tweek.....most are good out of the box, they life time fix the rest...gpr | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Gpr Message Board Member Username: Gpr Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2006 |
the biggest reason you don't see many keltecs in the case, they don't stay there long, the factory can not keep up with demand...gpr | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| John_q Message Board Member Username: John_q Post Number: 168 Registered: 01-2006 |
Gang, I agree, the KelTecs are impressive guns for the money. Glad to hear from TJ they have chrome silicon springs. (Altho the extractor spring broke on my P3AT at around a thousand rounds.) My experience with KelTec warranty service was impressive. I emailed them my story and asked for a new extractor and spring under warranty, and while they were at it, asked to buy some easy-to-lose parts as spares--the ejector, takedown pin, recoil spring and guide. I got back an email the same day saying all the parts were going in the mail tomorrow morning, and they arrived the day after that. No charge, no paper work, just fixed the problem and moved on. Best, John | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| M9x18 Message Board Member Username: M9x18 Post Number: 41 Registered: 04-2005 |
I own a Kel-Tec P-32 (.32 ACP) and a P-11 (9mm). In addition to being very light, both guns have been very reliable. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Cjw Message Board Member Username: Cjw Post Number: 1604 Registered: 12-2005 |
I've owned two Kel-Tec pistols in 9mm caliber, I think the model number was P-11. They were the ones with the ten shot magazines. Loved everything about 'em until I shot them with some NATO, about plus + rated, ammo. That's when the pin that holds the slide on fell out, on both guns, albeit at different times. As I understand it, this problem has been fixed but I'm sort of unwilling to buy and try a third one. Also, just remembered, when shooting a lot, more than 50 rounds of the standard velocity ammo, my trigger finger got sore. Why? The space between the trigger guard and the end of the trigger was pinching my trigger finger. Not a lot, but enough for it to be a cumulative ouch. I wish Kel-Tec well for they are not only listening to their customers but trying to build pistols that their customers want to buy for reasonable prices. CJ | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Preacher Message Board Member Username: Preacher Post Number: 3 Registered: 02-2007 |
I own a Kel-Tec P-32 (.32 ACP) that I bought from my son-in-law and daughter when they needed money. The gun feels like a toy but is very reliable and easy to clean. I am not very good with the double action but the gun shots well, has a fairly light trigger pull and is easy to clean. I have put 300 plus rounds through it with only 2 FTF problems. The gun was new and had never been fired when I got it. Overall it seems to be a good firearm. How is the quality of their long guns? | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Teddy_jacobson Message Board Member Username: Teddy_jacobson Post Number: 126 Registered: 02-2003 |
If you want to see the parts go to http://www.kel-tec.com/p32parts.html Teddy www.actionsbyt.com | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Billinpittsburg Message Board Member Username: Billinpittsburg Post Number: 1182 Registered: 01-2003 |
I own and have often carried a Kel-Tec P-32 that has been customuzed by David Clay. David added his tritium channel sight, and also welded and cut the hole in front of the slide that holds the barrel to move the barrel - and point of impact - slightly to the left, to correspond to the point of aim. These are great guns, with one major caveat. You MUST replace the 9 lb. recoil springs with Wolff 11 lb. springs. The 9 lb. springs function fine if the gun is only loaded with 7 rounds. However, if the gun is loaded with 1 in the chamber and 7 rounds in the magazine, there is at least a 5% chance that the rim of the top round will be in the groove of the round below it (this is NOT a rimlock). With all 7 rounds in the clip, the 9 lb. spring isn't strong enough to overcome this condition. The 11 lb. springs will overcome it every time. Out of the box, my gun was 100% reliable except when fully loaded (7+1) However, when loaded 7+1, it would jam at least half the time on the first shot. I carried the gun downloaded by one round until I learned about the heavier recoil springs. How many people test their guns loaded with a full magazine plus one in the chamber? Anyone who didn't won't pick up on this potential first shot jam. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Scion Message Board Member Username: Scion Post Number: 75 Registered: 12-2005 |
Billinpittsburg, That's a very good point, about practicing with a full mag and one chambered. I would guess most people do not...myself included. I always carry my low round capacity guns fully loaded, but rarely practice that way. High capacity mags may or may not be fully loaded. Billinpittsburg, Good post, good reminder. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Bighanded Message Board Member Username: Bighanded Post Number: 546 Registered: 07-2005 |
hadn't thought about it, cause you're so right...I always carry my guns plus 1...but often, when I go to the range I unload the "good stuff" and reload ball ammo for practice and that means that I'm not stacking the plus round...very typical I would think...then if I do want to run through a mag of my defense ammo I would be loading only the mag..so still missing it. The exception, was one that happened this past week.. I had just a short bit of time in the evening and wanted to try out a used Kahr that was at the local shop..so I rented their gun and after finishing with it, I had my G32 on my side and wanted to do a quick compare of feel, so I pulled it out "as is"...dropped the normal carry mag full of good stuff, and slid my 10rd ext mag of ball ammo, which happened to be in my bag and still full, but I left the plus 1 round still in the gun and fired it first..so I got one test of the gun with the 11th rd stage 1....the G32 was fine, but, as it tends to do now after the last visit to NAA, the last round stoves coming out of that 10rd mag...go figure...but thanks for the excellent point.. I'll run the next range sesssion plus one each time..gotta know. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Cjw Message Board Member Username: Cjw Post Number: 1606 Registered: 12-2005 |
AMMO IN TERMS OF HOW MUCH IS ENOUGH Am I the only shooter here who loads a full magazine, racks one into the chamber and then calls it good? I've seldom felt the need to load a full magazine plus one in the chamber with my pistols. And, maybe, I'm just guessing, that's why I've had zero to very few problems with them. However, on the flip side, my potential concealed carry: 1) Rimfire handguns, both of them, have 8 round magazines, which, I think, is a lot for such small pistols. And, it is a relatively rare day when I go with rimfire handguns as my concealed carry options. 2) Centerfire handguns, 8 of them: a) 4 are pistols, 2 are 9mm, loaded with +P+ HP, and 2 are 40 S&W, with each, I carry extra magazines. b) 4 are revolvers, 1 is a 38 SP, loaded with +P HP, 3 are 357 Magnums. All hold 5 rounds and I carry extra speed loaders. Point being, if I do my part, with respect to bullet placement, which I'm fairly good at between 6 and 21 feet, I see my caliber, load and bullet choices as real stoppers. As in, if I can put one of my bullets into an attacker's face or torso, at the aforementioned ranges, that attacker is, more often than not, going down. My choices are based on a theory of one shot one kill. That might not always happen but I do know that I can kill whitetail deer, with my caliber, load and bullet choices, from 3 feet out to, while running, somewhere around 50 paces, both with one shot, each, so, in essence, based on that real life experience, I'm betting my life that I can kill people between 3 feet and 21 feet with those same choices. Reasonable logic? I think so. Bottom line: If I run out of ammo before I run out of attackers, I'll just reload and keep shooting. However, based, again, on personal experience, when I have had to fight, with fists, groups of men, this was back when I was getting paid to do it, after I took out the first 3, no matter how many were left, that was the end of the fight. Plus, a pal, who spent the better part of two decades in what was then called the Congo, as a paid to fight professional, once told me that in combat, as he knew it, if they could kill or wound somewhere around 10% of an attacking force that force, more often than not, broke off their attack and begin to retreat. This is second hand info but, based on my experiences, fighting with fists, that sounds reasonable. In fact, let's turn it around. If you were part of an attacking force, armed or not, how many of your buddies would you have to see go down before you would either: 1) Continue your attack in a more determined manner, no matter what? 2) Break off your attack and try to save your own life or, at least, avoid a beating? I've never been in a situation where I had to retreat so have no idea what causes folks to break off a fight except the obvious: 1) Fear of dying. 2) Fear of getting a whooping. But, to get back on point, I suspect that if, let's say a gang of 10 were intent on robbing me or trying take Mimie away from me, if I could not only shoot but, more importantly, and this is where caliber, load and bullet choices enter into real life situations, drop, maybe, 3 or 4 of that 10 the others might, rapidly, very rapidly lose interest and fade away. Don’t get me wrong. I’ve written this before and I mean it: There is no such thing as having too much ammo available to you in a gun fight. That said, the: 1) Better your choices with respect to caliber, load and bullet construction 2) Better your bullet placement skill 3) Fewer shots are going to have to be fired in self defense. Conversely, 1) Less realistic your choices with respect to caliber, load and bullet construction 2) Worse your bullet placement skill 3) More shots are going to have to be fired in self defense. As the old shootists used to say: If you can’t hit it, how you gonna kill it? CJ | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Clayflingything Message Board Member Username: Clayflingything Post Number: 43 Registered: 04-2006 |
I too do not top off magazines. I have never done so on the theory (probably not true) that I am saving my magazine springs from taking a set or failing. BTW, my brother in law's Kel Tec 380 has been 100% from the box. My P32 had to go back for a failure to extract. Kel Tec seems to be one of those companies (like cars) where you never buy the first model year and you are better waiting for the third model year. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| John_q Message Board Member Username: John_q Post Number: 169 Registered: 01-2006 |
Clay, "I too do not top off magazines. I have never done so on the theory (probably not true) that I am saving my magazine springs from taking a set or failing." There are sound theoretical reasons to believe that this practice is beneficial. That doesn't mean it's necessary, but it may help extend spring life and can't hurt. The only way it will hurt is if you need that last shot in a hurry. . . so you pays your money and you takes your choice. . . Best, John_Q | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Nick Message Board Member Username: Nick Post Number: 63 Registered: 03-2003 |
FWIW, even if you load a full mag, rack the slide and dont top up, you could still end up with the condition where you have a totally full mag jammed up against the slide with one in the pipe if you ever execute a tac reload. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Teddy_jacobson Message Board Member Username: Teddy_jacobson Post Number: 127 Registered: 02-2003 |
I had a local man that called me and he said he owned a KELTEC P-32. I asked him to bring it over so that I could look at it. Which he was kind enough to do. In my examination of this $200.00 pistol I found that it was well engineered as it does incorporate an extractor that is positive and it has an ejector. The pistol is super light in weight. The breech face is cut properly and has no radius opposite the extractor on the breech face, and this is the correct way to do this. I measured the DAO trigger pull at 5 lbs. I do not know where the springs are made but according to the company they are chrome silicon instead of music wire. The 7 shot magazine says made in "ITALY" which is fine. I called at least 6 wholesalers and they all told me the very same story that they sell them faster than they can get them. This is a very light in weight pistol for a last ditch survival pistol and it does fire from a locked breech and the feed ramp is far superior to any of its compitition. Not polished but the throat and contour is far better then the other mouse guns I have seen. I now know why and understand why they are such a big seller. At gun shows they probably sell for about $240.00 and this is a good buy. At least this company seems to have designed their pistol by proven methods by a gun designer and not let marketing tell them how to make a gun. Take this post for what its worth as I have told you the truth. Would I buy one ?? YES. Teddy www.actionsbyt.com | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Kevin_quinlan Message Board Member Username: Kevin_quinlan Post Number: 155 Registered: 12-2005 |
Hi Teddy, I also looked at, and did research on, the Kel Tec. That is why I bought Guardians. If you do a search at thefiringline, or thehighroad, you will see Kel Tec's have more than their share of problems. We all want light. We all want cheap. But if reliability isn't there the rest doesn't matter. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Teddy_jacobson Message Board Member Username: Teddy_jacobson Post Number: 128 Registered: 02-2003 |
Hi Kevin, I was not claiming to say that I ever fired a KELTEC. I am telling you the features it has are way ahead of its competition. I am convinced that polishing the feed ramp and the breech face with diamonds and checking the magazine like I would ordinarily do to any semi auto would enable it to work well. I can also tell you I have been very unhappy having to get rid of my Guardian in 25 NAA caliber and being stuck with a lot of Corbon ammo. Many people who know me realize that I deceive no one and my observations and my recommendations carry a lot of weight with the buying public. All I would ever want out of a mouse gun is to fire a magazine full, just the one time I may need it. I am not ever going to a range and waste my time seeing how many rounds I can fire out of a very tiny semi auto of any manufacturer and to see how accurate it is, if I ever need it I will be two feet away from my target, its really that simple. These are not the kind of weapons I am in love with, but they must work when I need them. The critical thing about shooting tiny mouse guns is if you limp wrist it, they will not cycle and you must use quality ammo. I also airbrush about 35 microscopic coats of moly on the barrel and then bake it on there. I sometimes will use ceramic coatings. If and when I fire one of these Keltecs, I will let you know. I have absolutely no confidence in a Seecamp or a Guardian or a Tomcat at this point in time as it comes out of the box. The ones I have worked on have worked out very well. I know how to improve most every handgun out there. Thankyou, Teddy www.actionsbyt.com | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Teddy_jacobson Message Board Member Username: Teddy_jacobson Post Number: 129 Registered: 02-2003 |
BASIC CRITERIA IN SPRING WIRE...F.Y.I. CHROME SILICON premium springs are manufactured exclusively with certified aerospace specification alloys; stainless or chrome silicon. Then springs are heat treated, shot peened and stress relieved after winding to enhance performance and durability. CHROME SILICON springs utilize the same design and manufacturing technology as used in IndyCar and Formula One racing. In a typical 500 mile race, a valve spring in an IndyCar will go through more than 2,500,000 compression cycles. Consideration of factors such as modulus, wire diameter, mean diameter, active coils, total deflection, spring relaxation, maximum service temperature, and operating environment; results in you having modern spring technology available for your pistol. Because of the properties of music wire; it cannot be heat treated, shot peened and stress relieved after the spring is wound. Additionally, music wire lacks consistency from bulk lot to bulk lot. This results in inconsistent performance from spring to spring. This is the same technology that was in use 90 years ago when John Browning designed the 1911 style pistol. Springs shouldn’t be an ongoing worry or concern for the shooter. Springs should be an annual routine maintenance item. Change them once a year; go shoot and have fun. "PREMIUM" CHROME SILICON products are “The World’s Finest Gun Springs”. It is this belief that allows unmatched comparison. Anything that can be produced may have a problem. Spring design should be an evolutionary process. Only with feedback from shooters can problems be addressed or changes made that will enhance the performance of the spring and thusly, the pistol. Teddy Thought you would like a better understanding of spring wire used in handguns. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Billinpittsburg Message Board Member Username: Billinpittsburg Post Number: 1184 Registered: 01-2003 |
As I type this, the gun on my person is a Guardian .380 with Novak tritium sights and grip stippling done by the NAA custom shop, and an action job by Teddy. It is the gun most often on my person. My Kel-Tec P-32 is still occasionally carried, but as I type this it is in my safe. These are my two most heavily customized guns. However, there is a critical difference in the reasons for the customization. The NAA worked fine out of the box, and was customized to make it easier to shoot well. Conversely, the Kel-Tec required spring replacements to get it to work properly at all, and then customization to get it to shoot to point of aim. As the gun came from the factory, it shot 5" to the left at 30 feet. Overall, Kel-Tec did a really nice job on the P-32, with only spring replacements needed to get it to work at least basically as it should. However, read the number of problems described on KTOG with the P3AT and PF-9, and your impressions will be quite different. There is no doubt Kel-Tec has done the most engineering, but NAA has produced the gun I am happiest to be my life on at times when I am limited to a pocket gun. | ||||||||||||||||||||||
| Teddy_jacobson Message Board Member Username: Teddy_jacobson Post Number: 130 Registered: 02-2003 |
I am fully aware of what people want and need in order to carry a handgun. Trying to make a rolls-royce out of a mouse gun is just plain "NUTS". "IT IS WHAT IT IS" a last ditch third back up gun that you hope you will never need. For any reliability with serious people that know, they do not walk around with a mouse gun that gives them good groups at 30 feet. IF YOU TALKED WITH GUYS IN SPECIAL OPS THEY WOULD LAUGH IN YOUR FACE. Many of you are living in a fantasy world of nonsense. The best small small semi auto that is not only accurate but super reliable are the mini GLOCKS. DON'T LIKE WHAT I AM SAYING - "TOUGH" - BUT I TELL THE TRUTH. DO YOU THINK I AM CRAZY ENOUGH TO PUT MY LIFE ON THE LINE CARRYING A PISTOL THAT HAS BEEN CHEAPENED TO SAVE MONEY THAT HAS NO EJECTOR AND A WORTHLESS BREECH FACE AND AN EXTRACTOR THAT CAN NOT HOLD THE RIM OF THE CASE PROPERLY. go to www.truthaboutparts.blogspot.com look at the pictures that I took. CHECK THE ARCHIVES. DO YOU THINK I AM INSANE TO PUT GUTTER SNIPE SIGHTS ON A MOUSE GUN THAT ARE BARELY VISIBLE AT A GREAT COST. DO YOU THINK I WOULD ALLOW SOME ONE THAT MAKES TEN DOLLARS AN HOUR TO INSTALL HIGH DOLLAR TRITIUM NIGHT SIGHTS AND INSTALL A HARDENED ROLL PIN INTO A BLIND HOLE IN THE BARREL. HOW WILL YOU EVER GET THIS PIN OUT ??? DO YOU THINK THAT I WOULD USE AN "E" RING WHEN THERE ARE BETTER SNAP RINGS AVAILABLE. DO YOU THINK THAT I WOULD USE CHEAP MUSIC WIRE SPRINGS WHEN I COULD BUY PREMIUM CHROME SILICON SPRINGS. JUST READ THE "GUN TEST" REPORT ON THE GUARDIAN AND THEY DO NOT KNOW WHAT IS INSIDE LIKE I DO. WANT TO HIDE A GUN, USE AND WEAR AN ANKLE HOLSTER WITH AN OLDER SW "J" FRAME REVOLVER. OR USE A BELLY BAND HOLSTER FOR CONCEALMENT AND HIDE A REAL RELIABLE AND ACCURATE WEAPON. DON'T GIVE ME THE NONSENSE THAT ALL YOU CAN HIDE IS AN INFERIOR MOUSE GUN THAT USES THE LEFT LIP OF THE MAGAZINE AS AN EJECTOR. TELL THAT STORY TO SOME FLUNKIE THAT DOES NOT KNOW ANY BETTER. "ITS ALL ABOUT MONEY" WHEN WILL YOU LEARN. NO ONE CARES ABOUT ANYTHING BUT PROFIT MARGIN BECAUSE THEY ARE AFFRAID TO GO "BANKRUPT"...THEY MUST JUSTIFY THEIR SALARY, ITS THAT SIMPLE. THEY USE SPECIFIC EMPLOYEES TO DO WARRANTY WORK AT MOST FACTORIES, THESE EMPLOYEES MAKE PEAUNUTS, THAT IS THE WAY IT IS. SOME WORK ON A COMMISSION ONLY BASIS. WHEN A COMPANY GETS DESPERATE THEY TURN TO MARKETING PEOPLE LIKE SW. DO YOU WANT MENS COLOGNE, OR A BAR B Q GRILL, OR A BILLARD QUE, OR A CHEAP CHINESE KNIFE, OR A SHIRT, OR A BASEBALL CAP OR CLOTHING, HOW ABOUT A COFFEE MUG, THEN GO TO THE SMITH AND WESSON WEBSITE. PLACE YOUR ORDER NOW...THEIR NEW PRESIDENT NEEDS YOUR MONEY. HE CRIES ALL THE WAY TO THE "BANK"... YOU ARE BEING CONNED. DON'T LET THEM DO THIS TO YOU. THESE MOUSE GUNS HAVE A SHELF LIFE, FOR EXAMPLE THE TOMCAT IS GOOD FOR 3000 ROUNDS. THE KELTEC IS GOOD FOR MAYBE 6000 ROUNDS. THESE ARE NOT MEANT TO SHOOT A LOT AND NONE OF THEM WILL EVER BE SUPER ACCURATE. THEY ARE FOR TWO FEET AWAY AND ITS GOING TO BE YOUR ONLY CHOICE TO SURVIVE, WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN RELIEVED OF YOUR REAL CARRY WEAPONS. I DO NOT CARE ONE BIT IF ANOTHER GUN COMPANY GOES BANKRUPT BECAUSE THEY CUT CORNERS TO SAVE A DOLLAR AT THE EXPENSE OF YOUR LIFE. THEY ONLY HAVE TO BLAME THE GUY IN THE MIRROR. I DO FEEL VERY BAD FOR THE POOR WORKER JUST TRYING TO SQUEAK OUT A LIVING THAT LIVES FROM CHECK TO CHECK. NOT ALL OF US HAVE BEEN BORN WITH A GOLDEN SPOON IN OUR MOUTH LIKE RICH FOLKS AND THEY COULD CARE LESS ABOUT THE HARD WORKER. WHAT GOES AROUND COMES AROUND. JUST WAIT AND SEE. THANKYOU FOR READING MY COMMENTARY, I AM VERY ANGRY AS YOU CAN SEE BECAUSE OF THE OWNERS OF THESE COMPANIES ARE PLAYING YOU LIKE A FIDDLE. Teddy www.actionsbyt.com
Teddy_jacobson Message Board Member Username: Teddy_jacobson Post Number: 131 Registered: 02-2003
I thank you for all your replies. I never said that I did not like the NAA mini Revolver, my mini revolver was worked on by WAYNE MARTIN AT THE NAA FACTORY and I could not be happier with his work. It has been in my pocket for 12 years and it has not been fired since Wayne did some work on it for me, that is how much faith I have in him. Moving on, I know a great deal about carrying a handgun in hot weather as I am only 5 hours north of the mexican border. I would never carry anything less than a 9mm and it must be either a Glock or an HK P7 M8. There are countless ways to carry a decent caliber handgun, even in hot weather. Do you really want to get into a social encounter using a very tiny mouse gun. I have averaged about 5 or 6 shootings per year with the work I have done for people who carry guns for a living. If you want to rely on a 25 or 32 or whatever its none of my business. YOUR CALL, YOUR LIFE. I started this thread trying to explain about how poor, current production guns are made today and you have not changed my mind. My credentials and resume are far ahead of any of you, whether you like me or not I do not care. My claim to fame is genuine and most of you are stating a personal feeling or an experience. I am telling you they know how to make better handguns but its all about "BENJAMIN FRANKLIN"...I of course am refering to money. ($$$$$$$) Its all about profit margin... You brag about your KAHR pistols which is owned by the moonies. JUSTIN MOON IS THE OWNER. Take your average Kahr pistol and make sure its empty, except for the better ELITE 98. Hold it side ways and with the trigger in the forward position you can still take your finger and push your trigger forward another quarter of an inch. WHY ?? because they have an inferior trigger bar spring design. It is wrapped around the trigger bar and it is being restricted. I can discuss any handgun in complete detail but you will not all understand what I mean, this is because I am a trigger specialist and this is how I make a living. THIS IS ALL I DO... I am going to make a few suggestions for most of you, I suggest that you contact your local CORONERS office and ask the medical examiner if you can watch an autopsy. This will give you some education. When I went to the Miami School of medicine to see some one years ago I counted 27 autopsy tables. This is the world you need to see. My next suggestion is that its safer not to mention everything you own on any public forum. This is just honest advice, I have no doubt all forums are watched and monitored. I was just trying to explain that basic funtioning of a semi auto pistol has certain requirements that the Guardian does not have incorporated in the design, its not my fault as I told the owner years ago, it could be better and he chose to ignore me, so now look where hes at. I hope this Guardian gets back on the market soon with noted improvements. I will continue to answer my many emails when people ask me what they should purchase for the protection of life and property. I have a great deal of honest truth for the buying public and my email is tjacobson@houston.rr.com I JUST AM TRYING TO KEEP YOU FROM THE REALITY OF GETTING YOUR VERY OWN "TOE TAG"... Thankyou for reading my commentary. Have a good day. Teddy www.actionsbyt.com | ||||||||||||||||||||||
